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	<title>Comments on: Running a Game Studio: From Start-Up to Sustainability</title>
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	<link>http://www.untoldentertainment.com/blog/2009/10/09/running-a-game-studio-from-start-up-to-sustainability/</link>
	<description>We Make Flash Games</description>
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		<title>By: My most important Twitter Messages #4 &#124; der hess</title>
		<link>http://www.untoldentertainment.com/blog/2009/10/09/running-a-game-studio-from-start-up-to-sustainability/comment-page-1/#comment-4892</link>
		<dc:creator>My most important Twitter Messages #4 &#124; der hess</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 Jan 2010 14:05:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.untoldentertainment.com/blog/?p=1951#comment-4892</guid>
		<description>[...] Nice article: Running a Game Studio: From Start-Up to Sustainability [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Nice article: Running a Game Studio: From Start-Up to Sustainability [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Flash Indie Developer Part 3: Short list of risks &#124; der hess</title>
		<link>http://www.untoldentertainment.com/blog/2009/10/09/running-a-game-studio-from-start-up-to-sustainability/comment-page-1/#comment-4639</link>
		<dc:creator>Flash Indie Developer Part 3: Short list of risks &#124; der hess</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Nov 2009 13:47:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.untoldentertainment.com/blog/?p=1951#comment-4639</guid>
		<description>[...] OFF TOPIC: Everytime take care if the goverment would support your new business!!! [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] OFF TOPIC: Everytime take care if the goverment would support your new business!!! [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Ryan</title>
		<link>http://www.untoldentertainment.com/blog/2009/10/09/running-a-game-studio-from-start-up-to-sustainability/comment-page-1/#comment-4408</link>
		<dc:creator>Ryan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Oct 2009 13:42:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.untoldentertainment.com/blog/?p=1951#comment-4408</guid>
		<description>Thanks, Ron. i might just illustrate and post my teeter-totter example before Julian nabs it  :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks, Ron. i might just illustrate and post my teeter-totter example before Julian nabs it  :)</p>
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		<title>By: Ron</title>
		<link>http://www.untoldentertainment.com/blog/2009/10/09/running-a-game-studio-from-start-up-to-sustainability/comment-page-1/#comment-4404</link>
		<dc:creator>Ron</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Oct 2009 02:11:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.untoldentertainment.com/blog/?p=1951#comment-4404</guid>
		<description>Ryan:
For a guy who wasn&#039;t taking notes, I&#039;d say that&#039;s a mighty fine recap. I got alot out of the evening, even if several of the plotlines were all-too-familiar from my illustrator&#039;s viewpoint. Your teeter-totter/balanced bucket analogy  might be the way to go--a mix of paying jobs and love jobs.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ryan:<br />
For a guy who wasn&#8217;t taking notes, I&#8217;d say that&#8217;s a mighty fine recap. I got alot out of the evening, even if several of the plotlines were all-too-familiar from my illustrator&#8217;s viewpoint. Your teeter-totter/balanced bucket analogy  might be the way to go&#8211;a mix of paying jobs and love jobs.</p>
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		<title>By: Ryan</title>
		<link>http://www.untoldentertainment.com/blog/2009/10/09/running-a-game-studio-from-start-up-to-sustainability/comment-page-1/#comment-4397</link>
		<dc:creator>Ryan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 11 Oct 2009 19:16:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.untoldentertainment.com/blog/?p=1951#comment-4397</guid>
		<description>Jason - glad to hear you&#039;re not learning to console the newborn with one pee.

These are excellent tips.  We&#039;ve broken a few of these rules, and have kept others.  i&#039;m going to research your list of technologies - i know basecamp and mailchimp, but i haven&#039;t heard of the rest of them.

It&#039;s a good point that some people have gone into business with a big bag of money and haven&#039;t burned through it all yet.  This is the feeling i get about people who are VC- or Angel-financed.  It&#039;s easy to stay afloat when you&#039;re bankrolled, but try starting from scratch.  Now that i&#039;ve come to understand what it takes to run a shop, and i see all these bizarre stores with downtown Toronto storefronts and keep wondering how they even keep the lights on, i come to understand: it&#039;s likely Mommy or Daddy&#039;s money.  What does Joe Average audience member stand to learn from that?

i like to be transparent with how we got the money, how we spent it, and how we hope to find more.  That&#039;s a lot more useful than &quot;Step 1: Win the lottery.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jason &#8211; glad to hear you&#8217;re not learning to console the newborn with one pee.</p>
<p>These are excellent tips.  We&#8217;ve broken a few of these rules, and have kept others.  i&#8217;m going to research your list of technologies &#8211; i know basecamp and mailchimp, but i haven&#8217;t heard of the rest of them.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s a good point that some people have gone into business with a big bag of money and haven&#8217;t burned through it all yet.  This is the feeling i get about people who are VC- or Angel-financed.  It&#8217;s easy to stay afloat when you&#8217;re bankrolled, but try starting from scratch.  Now that i&#8217;ve come to understand what it takes to run a shop, and i see all these bizarre stores with downtown Toronto storefronts and keep wondering how they even keep the lights on, i come to understand: it&#8217;s likely Mommy or Daddy&#8217;s money.  What does Joe Average audience member stand to learn from that?</p>
<p>i like to be transparent with how we got the money, how we spent it, and how we hope to find more.  That&#8217;s a lot more useful than &#8220;Step 1: Win the lottery.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Jason Krogh</title>
		<link>http://www.untoldentertainment.com/blog/2009/10/09/running-a-game-studio-from-start-up-to-sustainability/comment-page-1/#comment-4375</link>
		<dc:creator>Jason Krogh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 11 Oct 2009 05:16:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.untoldentertainment.com/blog/?p=1951#comment-4375</guid>
		<description>Sorry I couldn&#039;t make it out to this (too busy learning how to pee while consoling a newborn with one arm). So many panels along these lines are populated by people determined to talk up their success. It&#039;s a natural tendency, but doesn&#039;t serve the audience very well. One also have to remember that some of these people may have walked into their business with a big bag of money and their only success is that they haven&#039;t managed to lose it all yet. Success for me means years in business and successfully completed projects. Anyone who has paid the bills for a few years or who hasn&#039;t delivered at least a handful of consistently above-average projects can go sit in the audience with the rest of us.

Starting a business is brutally hard. There are just so many fun ways it can blow up in one&#039;s face. For what it&#039;s worth a few things that worked for me:
- keep costs low and only spend what you can afford.
- stick to small projects at first and exceed expectations.
- expect to get paid a fair wage. if you don&#039;t charge market rate people will treat you like dirt.
- don&#039;t be afraid to turn down a job if you don&#039;t think you can do a great job of it.
- reduce your workload by using tools like unfuddle, basecamp, mailtrust, mailchimp, pingdom etc unless you have a damn good reason for rolling your own solution.
- try to main redundancy in expertise. do what you can to make sure more than one person has the info in their head.
- Labour is the mother of all expenses, everything else is minor in comparison so make sure you are getting your money&#039;s worth.
- Your time is often the limiting factor. Once things are rolling start asking yourself &#039;do I need to be the one doing this?&#039;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sorry I couldn&#8217;t make it out to this (too busy learning how to pee while consoling a newborn with one arm). So many panels along these lines are populated by people determined to talk up their success. It&#8217;s a natural tendency, but doesn&#8217;t serve the audience very well. One also have to remember that some of these people may have walked into their business with a big bag of money and their only success is that they haven&#8217;t managed to lose it all yet. Success for me means years in business and successfully completed projects. Anyone who has paid the bills for a few years or who hasn&#8217;t delivered at least a handful of consistently above-average projects can go sit in the audience with the rest of us.</p>
<p>Starting a business is brutally hard. There are just so many fun ways it can blow up in one&#8217;s face. For what it&#8217;s worth a few things that worked for me:<br />
- keep costs low and only spend what you can afford.<br />
- stick to small projects at first and exceed expectations.<br />
- expect to get paid a fair wage. if you don&#8217;t charge market rate people will treat you like dirt.<br />
- don&#8217;t be afraid to turn down a job if you don&#8217;t think you can do a great job of it.<br />
- reduce your workload by using tools like unfuddle, basecamp, mailtrust, mailchimp, pingdom etc unless you have a damn good reason for rolling your own solution.<br />
- try to main redundancy in expertise. do what you can to make sure more than one person has the info in their head.<br />
- Labour is the mother of all expenses, everything else is minor in comparison so make sure you are getting your money&#8217;s worth.<br />
- Your time is often the limiting factor. Once things are rolling start asking yourself &#8216;do I need to be the one doing this?&#8217;.</p>
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		<title>By: Ryan</title>
		<link>http://www.untoldentertainment.com/blog/2009/10/09/running-a-game-studio-from-start-up-to-sustainability/comment-page-1/#comment-4371</link>
		<dc:creator>Ryan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 Oct 2009 11:53:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.untoldentertainment.com/blog/?p=1951#comment-4371</guid>
		<description>Rob - Thanks so much for your warm words!  i actually &lt;em&gt;was&lt;/em&gt; staring at you most of the time, because yours was one of the most familiar faces in the crowd.

And sexy.  Dead sexy.

Re: First-timer questions ... i would have liked to have had the moderator survey the room so we knew who we were talking to.  i didn&#039;t know if it was mostly students or professionals.  i didn&#039;t know if we had mostly console-focussed folks or casual developers.  First-timer questions might have been appropriate - who knows?  But to put your mind at ease, it&#039;s the mandate of the IGDA Toronto Chapter to increasingly target its discussions to working professionals in the game industry. The students can come and glean what they can, but they&#039;re not the focus, so your beef is valid.

And i totally agree with you about making a game.  He who executes, wins.  i&#039;m glad to hear you guys are so far along on your first project!  Upcoming discussions will focus on exactly the types of topics you listed.  i hope to run one in April about pipeline management, tools, and streamlining.

i shall call it &quot;On the Pipe.&quot;

- Ryan</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Rob &#8211; Thanks so much for your warm words!  i actually <em>was</em> staring at you most of the time, because yours was one of the most familiar faces in the crowd.</p>
<p>And sexy.  Dead sexy.</p>
<p>Re: First-timer questions &#8230; i would have liked to have had the moderator survey the room so we knew who we were talking to.  i didn&#8217;t know if it was mostly students or professionals.  i didn&#8217;t know if we had mostly console-focussed folks or casual developers.  First-timer questions might have been appropriate &#8211; who knows?  But to put your mind at ease, it&#8217;s the mandate of the IGDA Toronto Chapter to increasingly target its discussions to working professionals in the game industry. The students can come and glean what they can, but they&#8217;re not the focus, so your beef is valid.</p>
<p>And i totally agree with you about making a game.  He who executes, wins.  i&#8217;m glad to hear you guys are so far along on your first project!  Upcoming discussions will focus on exactly the types of topics you listed.  i hope to run one in April about pipeline management, tools, and streamlining.</p>
<p>i shall call it &#8220;On the Pipe.&#8221;</p>
<p>- Ryan</p>
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		<title>By: Ryan</title>
		<link>http://www.untoldentertainment.com/blog/2009/10/09/running-a-game-studio-from-start-up-to-sustainability/comment-page-1/#comment-4370</link>
		<dc:creator>Ryan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 Oct 2009 11:46:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.untoldentertainment.com/blog/?p=1951#comment-4370</guid>
		<description>Bwakathaboom - TOTALLY wanna yell &quot;DON&#039;T!&quot;, but it would be completely unfair. i wouldn&#039;t have wanted anyone yelling &quot;DON&#039;T!&quot; at me back when i was starting my bidness.  But i think it&#039;s crucial that people go into it with realistic expectations and an appetite for failure.  The start-ups that make the news are the ones that are started by an under-25-year-old prodigy in the Valley that start churning out millions within six months.  What you DON&#039;T hear about are the start-ups that grew slowly into viable businesses through hard work and effort.  That&#039;s a story i think we need to tell more often.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bwakathaboom &#8211; TOTALLY wanna yell &#8220;DON&#8217;T!&#8221;, but it would be completely unfair. i wouldn&#8217;t have wanted anyone yelling &#8220;DON&#8217;T!&#8221; at me back when i was starting my bidness.  But i think it&#8217;s crucial that people go into it with realistic expectations and an appetite for failure.  The start-ups that make the news are the ones that are started by an under-25-year-old prodigy in the Valley that start churning out millions within six months.  What you DON&#8217;T hear about are the start-ups that grew slowly into viable businesses through hard work and effort.  That&#8217;s a story i think we need to tell more often.</p>
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		<title>By: Bwakathaboom</title>
		<link>http://www.untoldentertainment.com/blog/2009/10/09/running-a-game-studio-from-start-up-to-sustainability/comment-page-1/#comment-4368</link>
		<dc:creator>Bwakathaboom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 Oct 2009 05:47:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.untoldentertainment.com/blog/?p=1951#comment-4368</guid>
		<description>But when people ask &quot;How do I get in the business?&quot; don&#039;t you just want to yell at them &quot;DON&#039;T!&quot;?

I&#039;d probably be happier videotaping weddings.  I&#039;d certainly be making more money.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>But when people ask &#8220;How do I get in the business?&#8221; don&#8217;t you just want to yell at them &#8220;DON&#8217;T!&#8221;?</p>
<p>I&#8217;d probably be happier videotaping weddings.  I&#8217;d certainly be making more money.</p>
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		<title>By: Rob Segal</title>
		<link>http://www.untoldentertainment.com/blog/2009/10/09/running-a-game-studio-from-start-up-to-sustainability/comment-page-1/#comment-4367</link>
		<dc:creator>Rob Segal</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 Oct 2009 04:38:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.untoldentertainment.com/blog/?p=1951#comment-4367</guid>
		<description>Ryan I would definitely say having you speak on the panel made it worth the effort to attend.  You are unmatched in your talents as an entertainer here in our fine city.  I could have sworn you were staring me down half the time of that panel but I can&#039;t say for sure.

I agree with you it would have been great to have heard more of how things failed for people.  Those failures were kind of touched on at a higher level but I don&#039;t recall many specifics being pointed out.   It&#039;s tough to have an in depth conversation because of the amount of people on the panel, in the room and the length of the conversation.  Only so much can be done in an hour and a half.

I don&#039;t know how to say this without kind of sounding like a dick but I would&#039;ve liked to have seen less first timer type questions like &quot;Do you think its a good idea to work on a mod?&quot;.  The answer to this came up indirectly by I think almost every member of the panel.  Make something you can show to people don&#039;t just talk about it.  That is a key point I think should be really hammered home.  Everyone talks about making games just get out and do it!  Doesn&#039;t matter if its good, bad or ugly.  On that line of thinking have more discussion on how to properly achieve that would have been great.   How do you stay motivated to achieve your goal?  Tools, mentors, websites, etc.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ryan I would definitely say having you speak on the panel made it worth the effort to attend.  You are unmatched in your talents as an entertainer here in our fine city.  I could have sworn you were staring me down half the time of that panel but I can&#8217;t say for sure.</p>
<p>I agree with you it would have been great to have heard more of how things failed for people.  Those failures were kind of touched on at a higher level but I don&#8217;t recall many specifics being pointed out.   It&#8217;s tough to have an in depth conversation because of the amount of people on the panel, in the room and the length of the conversation.  Only so much can be done in an hour and a half.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t know how to say this without kind of sounding like a dick but I would&#8217;ve liked to have seen less first timer type questions like &#8220;Do you think its a good idea to work on a mod?&#8221;.  The answer to this came up indirectly by I think almost every member of the panel.  Make something you can show to people don&#8217;t just talk about it.  That is a key point I think should be really hammered home.  Everyone talks about making games just get out and do it!  Doesn&#8217;t matter if its good, bad or ugly.  On that line of thinking have more discussion on how to properly achieve that would have been great.   How do you stay motivated to achieve your goal?  Tools, mentors, websites, etc.</p>
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		<title>By: Ryan</title>
		<link>http://www.untoldentertainment.com/blog/2009/10/09/running-a-game-studio-from-start-up-to-sustainability/comment-page-1/#comment-4366</link>
		<dc:creator>Ryan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 Oct 2009 03:07:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.untoldentertainment.com/blog/?p=1951#comment-4366</guid>
		<description>Thanks, Dmitri.  i hope that was a good thing.  i can&#039;t stand being bored while watching a panel.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks, Dmitri.  i hope that was a good thing.  i can&#8217;t stand being bored while watching a panel.</p>
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		<title>By: Dmitry</title>
		<link>http://www.untoldentertainment.com/blog/2009/10/09/running-a-game-studio-from-start-up-to-sustainability/comment-page-1/#comment-4365</link>
		<dc:creator>Dmitry</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Oct 2009 22:42:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.untoldentertainment.com/blog/?p=1951#comment-4365</guid>
		<description>Can&#039;t agree with Dave more. It was certainly quite a contrast to the others on the panel.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Can&#8217;t agree with Dave more. It was certainly quite a contrast to the others on the panel.</p>
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		<title>By: Ryan</title>
		<link>http://www.untoldentertainment.com/blog/2009/10/09/running-a-game-studio-from-start-up-to-sustainability/comment-page-1/#comment-4364</link>
		<dc:creator>Ryan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Oct 2009 18:38:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.untoldentertainment.com/blog/?p=1951#comment-4364</guid>
		<description>Thanks, Dave.  If i gave you the impression that the Flash industry was all frustration and hobo-courting, then MISSION ACCOMPLISHED.  :)

We touched on UbiSoft a little ... it was interesting to me that the room was projecting doom and gloom, but that the panel was not.  All in all, a favourable forecast for Ontario&#039;s gaming future.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks, Dave.  If i gave you the impression that the Flash industry was all frustration and hobo-courting, then MISSION ACCOMPLISHED.  :)</p>
<p>We touched on UbiSoft a little &#8230; it was interesting to me that the room was projecting doom and gloom, but that the panel was not.  All in all, a favourable forecast for Ontario&#8217;s gaming future.</p>
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		<title>By: Dave</title>
		<link>http://www.untoldentertainment.com/blog/2009/10/09/running-a-game-studio-from-start-up-to-sustainability/comment-page-1/#comment-4363</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Oct 2009 17:46:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.untoldentertainment.com/blog/?p=1951#comment-4363</guid>
		<description>Great writeup, Ryan.  You provided a contrast to the others on the panel, that&#039;s for sure - though a side effect may have been that your area of the industry is an excercise in frustration and hobo-courting.  While there wasn&#039;t a whole lot of detailed stories of failure during the talk, I hope if someone came in with an unrealistic/idyllic conception of starting a games company they got their perspective tweaked a bit.

The impending local Ubisoft studio may have been the invisible elephant in the room. Some in that audience might appreciate a deeper discussion of employee vs. entrepreneur career paths.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great writeup, Ryan.  You provided a contrast to the others on the panel, that&#8217;s for sure &#8211; though a side effect may have been that your area of the industry is an excercise in frustration and hobo-courting.  While there wasn&#8217;t a whole lot of detailed stories of failure during the talk, I hope if someone came in with an unrealistic/idyllic conception of starting a games company they got their perspective tweaked a bit.</p>
<p>The impending local Ubisoft studio may have been the invisible elephant in the room. Some in that audience might appreciate a deeper discussion of employee vs. entrepreneur career paths.</p>
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