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	<title>Comments on: Ubi Ubi Ubi &#8216;Til You Just Can&#8217;t Ubi No More</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.untoldentertainment.com/blog/2009/07/12/ubi-ubi-ubi-til-you-just-cant-ubi-no-more/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.untoldentertainment.com/blog/2009/07/12/ubi-ubi-ubi-til-you-just-cant-ubi-no-more/</link>
	<description>We Make Flash Games</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Fri, 10 Feb 2012 03:01:47 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Hooman</title>
		<link>http://www.untoldentertainment.com/blog/2009/07/12/ubi-ubi-ubi-til-you-just-cant-ubi-no-more/comment-page-1/#comment-3416</link>
		<dc:creator>Hooman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Jul 2009 03:04:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.untoldentertainment.com/blog/?p=1378#comment-3416</guid>
		<description>As someone who made games before deciding to go to university, I can honestly tell you that universities are not the place for creative/competent thinkers.  Universities turn you into a carrier of knowledge - basically you just memorize a bunch of problems which you then regurgitate onto a test.  If you try to come up with your own solution you risk losing marks because it&#039;s not exactly the same as the answer in the textbook they were looking for.  Unfortunately, in the real world - e.g. making video games - there is not always an answer lying around for you to copy from.

As for corporate welfare for Ubisoft, sure, why not - the government already wasted billions keeping GM/Chrysler going, and working an assembly line is probably just as mind numbing as being a cog in the wheel of a &quot;triple-a&quot; company.  All those UOIT graduates need somewhere to work, and video games cause less pollution than cars.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As someone who made games before deciding to go to university, I can honestly tell you that universities are not the place for creative/competent thinkers.  Universities turn you into a carrier of knowledge &#8211; basically you just memorize a bunch of problems which you then regurgitate onto a test.  If you try to come up with your own solution you risk losing marks because it&#8217;s not exactly the same as the answer in the textbook they were looking for.  Unfortunately, in the real world &#8211; e.g. making video games &#8211; there is not always an answer lying around for you to copy from.</p>
<p>As for corporate welfare for Ubisoft, sure, why not &#8211; the government already wasted billions keeping GM/Chrysler going, and working an assembly line is probably just as mind numbing as being a cog in the wheel of a &#8220;triple-a&#8221; company.  All those UOIT graduates need somewhere to work, and video games cause less pollution than cars.</p>
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		<title>By: Ryan</title>
		<link>http://www.untoldentertainment.com/blog/2009/07/12/ubi-ubi-ubi-til-you-just-cant-ubi-no-more/comment-page-1/#comment-3415</link>
		<dc:creator>Ryan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Jul 2009 00:09:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.untoldentertainment.com/blog/?p=1378#comment-3415</guid>
		<description>AAaahhhhhhhh ... thanks for cluing me in, Miguel!.  i knew i was missing something.  Still, whether the problem was with the student or the school, the point remains made.  

One of the first things i tell students when i visit schools is &quot;Don&#039;t expect your school to *make* you a good [designer, developer, animator - whatever].  You have oodles of time and a bunch of expensive equipment to totally immerse yourself in your craft. Use it!&quot;

That said, i think certain schools set the bar high enough so that bad students simply don&#039;t graduate.  i dropped out of Sheridan because i wasn&#039;t a very good artist, and the school could do nothing to change that.  i wound up at Seneca College, a school that basically checked for a pulse and a bank account, and you were in.  Needless to say, the kwality of work and people coming out of that place left a lot to be desired.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>AAaahhhhhhhh &#8230; thanks for cluing me in, Miguel!.  i knew i was missing something.  Still, whether the problem was with the student or the school, the point remains made.  </p>
<p>One of the first things i tell students when i visit schools is &#8220;Don&#8217;t expect your school to *make* you a good [designer, developer, animator - whatever].  You have oodles of time and a bunch of expensive equipment to totally immerse yourself in your craft. Use it!&#8221;</p>
<p>That said, i think certain schools set the bar high enough so that bad students simply don&#8217;t graduate.  i dropped out of Sheridan because i wasn&#8217;t a very good artist, and the school could do nothing to change that.  i wound up at Seneca College, a school that basically checked for a pulse and a bank account, and you were in.  Needless to say, the kwality of work and people coming out of that place left a lot to be desired.</p>
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		<title>By: Miguel S.</title>
		<link>http://www.untoldentertainment.com/blog/2009/07/12/ubi-ubi-ubi-til-you-just-cant-ubi-no-more/comment-page-1/#comment-3414</link>
		<dc:creator>Miguel S.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Jul 2009 23:58:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.untoldentertainment.com/blog/?p=1378#comment-3414</guid>
		<description>The gag &lt;I&gt;is&lt;/I&gt; the terrible animation and the fact that this students class on animation sucked. The &quot;Thanks for nothing&quot; is kind of the tip off ;)  There&#039;s an interview with the student here: http://waxy.org/2008/01/colins_bear_ani/

My experience working with interns from several of these game colleges has actually been very positive. There are some bad eggs who aren&#039;t cut out for working in the industry but I think a large number of them do have what it takes, at least for a junior position as an environmental artist or the like.  That&#039;s not to say the colleges are any good. I think many of the graduates have what it takes &lt;I&gt;despite the crap game college they attended&lt;/I&gt; and not because of it. So while Ubisoft does nothing for me as an indie studio it hopefully will mean jobs for these graduates.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The gag <i>is</i> the terrible animation and the fact that this students class on animation sucked. The &#8220;Thanks for nothing&#8221; is kind of the tip off ;)  There&#8217;s an interview with the student here: <a href="http://waxy.org/2008/01/colins_bear_ani/" rel="nofollow">http://waxy.org/2008/01/colins_bear_ani/</a></p>
<p>My experience working with interns from several of these game colleges has actually been very positive. There are some bad eggs who aren&#8217;t cut out for working in the industry but I think a large number of them do have what it takes, at least for a junior position as an environmental artist or the like.  That&#8217;s not to say the colleges are any good. I think many of the graduates have what it takes <i>despite the crap game college they attended</i> and not because of it. So while Ubisoft does nothing for me as an indie studio it hopefully will mean jobs for these graduates.</p>
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		<title>By: Ryan</title>
		<link>http://www.untoldentertainment.com/blog/2009/07/12/ubi-ubi-ubi-til-you-just-cant-ubi-no-more/comment-page-1/#comment-3413</link>
		<dc:creator>Ryan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Jul 2009 19:19:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.untoldentertainment.com/blog/?p=1378#comment-3413</guid>
		<description>Also:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xfyIvmocgxA&amp;NR=1

Maybe i&#039;m too old and humourless to &quot;get it&quot;?  Whether or not it&#039;s a good gag, it&#039;s not well animated.  And the class was animation.  i&#039;m just suggesting that the vast majority of students coming out of this province&#039;s college-level (and in this case University-level) game design programs likely won&#039;t have the chops to be of use to the industry.

Unless someone&#039;s developing the Dancing Bear Gag Game ...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Also:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xfyIvmocgxA&#038;NR=1" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xfyIvmocgxA&#038;NR=1</a></p>
<p>Maybe i&#8217;m too old and humourless to &#8220;get it&#8221;?  Whether or not it&#8217;s a good gag, it&#8217;s not well animated.  And the class was animation.  i&#8217;m just suggesting that the vast majority of students coming out of this province&#8217;s college-level (and in this case University-level) game design programs likely won&#8217;t have the chops to be of use to the industry.</p>
<p>Unless someone&#8217;s developing the Dancing Bear Gag Game &#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Jim McLovingThatBear</title>
		<link>http://www.untoldentertainment.com/blog/2009/07/12/ubi-ubi-ubi-til-you-just-cant-ubi-no-more/comment-page-1/#comment-3411</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim McLovingThatBear</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Jul 2009 19:00:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.untoldentertainment.com/blog/?p=1378#comment-3411</guid>
		<description>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TTyfqVOFTFc</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TTyfqVOFTFc" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TTyfqVOFTFc</a></p>
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		<title>By: Ryan</title>
		<link>http://www.untoldentertainment.com/blog/2009/07/12/ubi-ubi-ubi-til-you-just-cant-ubi-no-more/comment-page-1/#comment-3412</link>
		<dc:creator>Ryan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Jul 2009 18:40:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.untoldentertainment.com/blog/?p=1378#comment-3412</guid>
		<description>Ditto the OMDC Interactive Digital Media fund (again, not to pick on them).  You can only propose a project that has user-generated content if the vast majority of the project is content created by your team.

i don&#039;t know where this huge push for content comes from.  The Ministry of Culture?  Is it a bid to ensure that we don&#039;t end up as a service work country like India?  There are worse things, I&#039;m sure.  And India&#039;s going to come out with a lot of its own great content ten years from now, after wealthier countries build up their talent and expertise by constantly outsourcing work there.

i&#039;ve always been an in-the-trenches, pay-your-dues kind of guy. i think a company should have to endure a number of service contracts to see what&#039;s what, and to learn from other companies&#039; mistakes.  It makes for good training.  It&#039;s never sat right with me that a company can come straight out of the gate and get a $100k Ontario grant for an original property.  Let&#039;s put some money towards seasoning these start-ups first, so that less money is wasted through inexperience and mismanagement on original projects.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ditto the OMDC Interactive Digital Media fund (again, not to pick on them).  You can only propose a project that has user-generated content if the vast majority of the project is content created by your team.</p>
<p>i don&#8217;t know where this huge push for content comes from.  The Ministry of Culture?  Is it a bid to ensure that we don&#8217;t end up as a service work country like India?  There are worse things, I&#8217;m sure.  And India&#8217;s going to come out with a lot of its own great content ten years from now, after wealthier countries build up their talent and expertise by constantly outsourcing work there.</p>
<p>i&#8217;ve always been an in-the-trenches, pay-your-dues kind of guy. i think a company should have to endure a number of service contracts to see what&#8217;s what, and to learn from other companies&#8217; mistakes.  It makes for good training.  It&#8217;s never sat right with me that a company can come straight out of the gate and get a $100k Ontario grant for an original property.  Let&#8217;s put some money towards seasoning these start-ups first, so that less money is wasted through inexperience and mismanagement on original projects.</p>
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		<title>By: Jason Krogh</title>
		<link>http://www.untoldentertainment.com/blog/2009/07/12/ubi-ubi-ubi-til-you-just-cant-ubi-no-more/comment-page-1/#comment-3410</link>
		<dc:creator>Jason Krogh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Jul 2009 18:33:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.untoldentertainment.com/blog/?p=1378#comment-3410</guid>
		<description>Along the lines of what you&#039;re talking about it&#039;s interesting to note that we had some ideas rejected by Telefilm because they involved content contributed by users, even though it would have been alongside &quot;professional&quot; content we commissioned. Given the overwhelming momentum behind social software it struck me as particularly bizarre to rule out projects where the users participate by contributing content.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Along the lines of what you&#8217;re talking about it&#8217;s interesting to note that we had some ideas rejected by Telefilm because they involved content contributed by users, even though it would have been alongside &#8220;professional&#8221; content we commissioned. Given the overwhelming momentum behind social software it struck me as particularly bizarre to rule out projects where the users participate by contributing content.</p>
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		<title>By: Ryan</title>
		<link>http://www.untoldentertainment.com/blog/2009/07/12/ubi-ubi-ubi-til-you-just-cant-ubi-no-more/comment-page-1/#comment-3409</link>
		<dc:creator>Ryan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Jul 2009 17:16:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.untoldentertainment.com/blog/?p=1378#comment-3409</guid>
		<description>Thanks, Jason.  i was going to include you in my list of Toronto game companies, but i decided to leave out the TV/game hybrids.  For posterity, here are a handful that come to mind - your own very well thought-of shop Zinc Roe, Smiley Guy Studios, Decode Entertainment, and Heroic Films (once they release a game, i suppose).  i feel that the game-only shops are in a different world than hybrid studios, because game studios can&#039;t directly access the Bell Fund.  If you&#039;re triple-A, you&#039;re really something in Ontario.  If you&#039;re not triple-A, at least you have a TV show.  And if you&#039;re not triple-A AND you don&#039;t have a TV show, you may as well not exist.

While we&#039;re yapping, it might be interesting to mention that the OMDC (not to pick on them) is funding other media sectors to digitize their work.  This got my back up a little - giving grants to non-interactive companies to do interactive work.  For example, they&#039;ll give money to a music company who wants to put its artists&#039; videos on an iPhone, or a book company who wants to scan its books and put them online, because this is &quot;new&quot;.  We gently reminded them that neither mobile video nor The Internatz were &quot;new&quot; technologies.  They said that being on mobile was &quot;new&quot; *to the music company*.

So i asked them if there was any money for an interactive digital media company who wanted to publish a book.  The answer, predictably, was no.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks, Jason.  i was going to include you in my list of Toronto game companies, but i decided to leave out the TV/game hybrids.  For posterity, here are a handful that come to mind &#8211; your own very well thought-of shop Zinc Roe, Smiley Guy Studios, Decode Entertainment, and Heroic Films (once they release a game, i suppose).  i feel that the game-only shops are in a different world than hybrid studios, because game studios can&#8217;t directly access the Bell Fund.  If you&#8217;re triple-A, you&#8217;re really something in Ontario.  If you&#8217;re not triple-A, at least you have a TV show.  And if you&#8217;re not triple-A AND you don&#8217;t have a TV show, you may as well not exist.</p>
<p>While we&#8217;re yapping, it might be interesting to mention that the OMDC (not to pick on them) is funding other media sectors to digitize their work.  This got my back up a little &#8211; giving grants to non-interactive companies to do interactive work.  For example, they&#8217;ll give money to a music company who wants to put its artists&#8217; videos on an iPhone, or a book company who wants to scan its books and put them online, because this is &#8220;new&#8221;.  We gently reminded them that neither mobile video nor The Internatz were &#8220;new&#8221; technologies.  They said that being on mobile was &#8220;new&#8221; *to the music company*.</p>
<p>So i asked them if there was any money for an interactive digital media company who wanted to publish a book.  The answer, predictably, was no.</p>
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		<title>By: Jason Krogh</title>
		<link>http://www.untoldentertainment.com/blog/2009/07/12/ubi-ubi-ubi-til-you-just-cant-ubi-no-more/comment-page-1/#comment-3408</link>
		<dc:creator>Jason Krogh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Jul 2009 16:58:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.untoldentertainment.com/blog/?p=1378#comment-3408</guid>
		<description>Great post. I started a comment and it&#039;s now evolved into something longer. Long story short I completely agree with the points you make in your &#039;dear Ontario&#039; letter. Attracting and retaining good work-for-hire clients is a better measure of your abilities as a new media developer than any proposal could hope to be.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great post. I started a comment and it&#8217;s now evolved into something longer. Long story short I completely agree with the points you make in your &#8216;dear Ontario&#8217; letter. Attracting and retaining good work-for-hire clients is a better measure of your abilities as a new media developer than any proposal could hope to be.</p>
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		<title>By: Tony Walsh</title>
		<link>http://www.untoldentertainment.com/blog/2009/07/12/ubi-ubi-ubi-til-you-just-cant-ubi-no-more/comment-page-1/#comment-3406</link>
		<dc:creator>Tony Walsh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Jul 2009 11:39:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.untoldentertainment.com/blog/?p=1378#comment-3406</guid>
		<description>Thanks for the kind mention, Ryan.  Overall, I&#039;m in agreement with you about the state of the industry (in light of Ubi&#039;s arrival).  Personally, I feel the most support from the omdc&#039;s tax credit system--my projects are usually too small to bother with the intensive front-end funds.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the kind mention, Ryan.  Overall, I&#8217;m in agreement with you about the state of the industry (in light of Ubi&#8217;s arrival).  Personally, I feel the most support from the omdc&#8217;s tax credit system&#8211;my projects are usually too small to bother with the intensive front-end funds.</p>
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