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	<title>Comments on: The Ethics of Hiring Students</title>
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	<link>http://www.untoldentertainment.com/blog/2009/06/11/the-ethics-of-hiring-students/</link>
	<description>We Make Flash Games</description>
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		<title>By: Ryan</title>
		<link>http://www.untoldentertainment.com/blog/2009/06/11/the-ethics-of-hiring-students/comment-page-1/#comment-3335</link>
		<dc:creator>Ryan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Jun 2009 12:37:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.untoldentertainment.com/blog/?p=1334#comment-3335</guid>
		<description>Here are some perspectives from my pal JP Amore at George Brown College here in Toronto, who heads up various game development and game design programs:

&lt;blockquote&gt;
True - many students will be lining up at studio doors for jobs - when there are very few opportunities. So why not have them work for free and gain experience?
 
GBC has shifted my perspective (no biases are made thus far! I work at many colleges and I find the best opportunities provided from GBC). Why should students work for free, when we can hire them within the college to develop for companies? So you ask - how is the quality of work? Well we hire faculty to mentor and supervise development and manage production. For the Untold&#039;s, federal and provincial funding might be easier to come across when institutions are partnered - guess who funds the institutions ;)
 
What about graduates? The most talented and ambitious will find careers in the field. Unfortunately - for the time being - not in Toronto. In a utopian world, I would recommend graduates contract their services for small fees, to gain experience, working knowledge and $. A great opportunity to prove themselves to the world!
&lt;/blockquote&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here are some perspectives from my pal JP Amore at George Brown College here in Toronto, who heads up various game development and game design programs:</p>
<blockquote><p>
True &#8211; many students will be lining up at studio doors for jobs &#8211; when there are very few opportunities. So why not have them work for free and gain experience?</p>
<p>GBC has shifted my perspective (no biases are made thus far! I work at many colleges and I find the best opportunities provided from GBC). Why should students work for free, when we can hire them within the college to develop for companies? So you ask &#8211; how is the quality of work? Well we hire faculty to mentor and supervise development and manage production. For the Untold&#8217;s, federal and provincial funding might be easier to come across when institutions are partnered &#8211; guess who funds the institutions ;)</p>
<p>What about graduates? The most talented and ambitious will find careers in the field. Unfortunately &#8211; for the time being &#8211; not in Toronto. In a utopian world, I would recommend graduates contract their services for small fees, to gain experience, working knowledge and $. A great opportunity to prove themselves to the world!
</p></blockquote>
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		<title>By: Jessica</title>
		<link>http://www.untoldentertainment.com/blog/2009/06/11/the-ethics-of-hiring-students/comment-page-1/#comment-3332</link>
		<dc:creator>Jessica</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Jun 2009 03:32:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.untoldentertainment.com/blog/?p=1334#comment-3332</guid>
		<description>So, why not take on the occasional intern? They&#039;re already used to not getting paid and an honorarium for that is quite a bonus. 

I agree that once they graduate and are in the field, they need to get paid... working for free is just not cool after that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So, why not take on the occasional intern? They&#8217;re already used to not getting paid and an honorarium for that is quite a bonus. </p>
<p>I agree that once they graduate and are in the field, they need to get paid&#8230; working for free is just not cool after that.</p>
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		<title>By: Andy Smith</title>
		<link>http://www.untoldentertainment.com/blog/2009/06/11/the-ethics-of-hiring-students/comment-page-1/#comment-3331</link>
		<dc:creator>Andy Smith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Jun 2009 03:21:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.untoldentertainment.com/blog/?p=1334#comment-3331</guid>
		<description>Well, being a recent graduate from the now defunct IADT, I was incredibly lucky to find a nice start-up who simply wanted to hire someone straight out of school because, A)You don&#039;t have to pay them as much, and B)They&#039;ll be so grateful for the work, they&#039;ll do just about anything. Of course, I had the advantage of A) Being likable and B) Looking for a job in an area that had never heard of my school. (Thank God for that...). The best advice I could give to any recent grad is never say no to an opportunity to meet someone in the business. If there&#039;s a lecture about games at 6 am on a Saturday, you better get your unkempt ass to it. It&#039;s all about who you can meet. Which is why TOJam was so awesome. As a side note, I met the guy who got me my job at TOJam...coincidence? Possibly. Also, I realized that no one asked me for my opinion, and I&#039;m probably WAY off topic. Also, I&#039;m not great with punctuation. Either way...uhhhh...damn.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, being a recent graduate from the now defunct IADT, I was incredibly lucky to find a nice start-up who simply wanted to hire someone straight out of school because, A)You don&#8217;t have to pay them as much, and B)They&#8217;ll be so grateful for the work, they&#8217;ll do just about anything. Of course, I had the advantage of A) Being likable and B) Looking for a job in an area that had never heard of my school. (Thank God for that&#8230;). The best advice I could give to any recent grad is never say no to an opportunity to meet someone in the business. If there&#8217;s a lecture about games at 6 am on a Saturday, you better get your unkempt ass to it. It&#8217;s all about who you can meet. Which is why TOJam was so awesome. As a side note, I met the guy who got me my job at TOJam&#8230;coincidence? Possibly. Also, I realized that no one asked me for my opinion, and I&#8217;m probably WAY off topic. Also, I&#8217;m not great with punctuation. Either way&#8230;uhhhh&#8230;damn.</p>
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		<title>By: Gavin</title>
		<link>http://www.untoldentertainment.com/blog/2009/06/11/the-ethics-of-hiring-students/comment-page-1/#comment-3319</link>
		<dc:creator>Gavin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Jun 2009 15:56:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.untoldentertainment.com/blog/?p=1334#comment-3319</guid>
		<description>Ryan, then wait 20 mins. I&#039;m a believer that there&#039;s work out there for those who are ambitious and resourceful enough to look. And don&#039;t be afraid to pack up and go where the work is early on in your career. 

Michael, you forgot the fourth option: consider a career change ;)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ryan, then wait 20 mins. I&#8217;m a believer that there&#8217;s work out there for those who are ambitious and resourceful enough to look. And don&#8217;t be afraid to pack up and go where the work is early on in your career. </p>
<p>Michael, you forgot the fourth option: consider a career change ;)</p>
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		<title>By: Ryan</title>
		<link>http://www.untoldentertainment.com/blog/2009/06/11/the-ethics-of-hiring-students/comment-page-1/#comment-3317</link>
		<dc:creator>Ryan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Jun 2009 14:56:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.untoldentertainment.com/blog/?p=1334#comment-3317</guid>
		<description>(Depends on the supermarket ... ?)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>(Depends on the supermarket &#8230; ?)</p>
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		<title>By: Michael</title>
		<link>http://www.untoldentertainment.com/blog/2009/06/11/the-ethics-of-hiring-students/comment-page-1/#comment-3316</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Jun 2009 14:51:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.untoldentertainment.com/blog/?p=1334#comment-3316</guid>
		<description>When I graduated from university, a lot of my friends had difficulty getting a job straight away -- either because they&#039;d prioritised getting grades over applying for work, or because they were stuck in the &quot;work requires work experience&quot; cycle.

Most recent graduates I know stayed with their parents for quite a while, even if they had a job (is this unusual? Perhaps it&#039;s to do with the infamous property ladder), so rent and food wasn&#039;t a big deal. Those without jobs obviously had to keep posting out applications and going to interviews, but on top of that they basically had three other options: work at a supermarket, volunteer, or sit at home and play video games.

Surely any job -- even an low-paying or unpaid one -- in the industry they want to work in and with the potential to make contacts must be better for their career than those alternatives?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>When I graduated from university, a lot of my friends had difficulty getting a job straight away &#8212; either because they&#8217;d prioritised getting grades over applying for work, or because they were stuck in the &#8220;work requires work experience&#8221; cycle.</p>
<p>Most recent graduates I know stayed with their parents for quite a while, even if they had a job (is this unusual? Perhaps it&#8217;s to do with the infamous property ladder), so rent and food wasn&#8217;t a big deal. Those without jobs obviously had to keep posting out applications and going to interviews, but on top of that they basically had three other options: work at a supermarket, volunteer, or sit at home and play video games.</p>
<p>Surely any job &#8212; even an low-paying or unpaid one &#8212; in the industry they want to work in and with the potential to make contacts must be better for their career than those alternatives?</p>
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		<title>By: Ryan</title>
		<link>http://www.untoldentertainment.com/blog/2009/06/11/the-ethics-of-hiring-students/comment-page-1/#comment-3315</link>
		<dc:creator>Ryan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Jun 2009 14:25:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.untoldentertainment.com/blog/?p=1334#comment-3315</guid>
		<description>Thanks, Gavin!

i&#039;m with you - i&#039;m siding with the pay=work school of thought.  But - being devil&#039;s advocate - what if you never get to the 10 year mark because no one would give you your break in those first 10 minutes?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks, Gavin!</p>
<p>i&#8217;m with you &#8211; i&#8217;m siding with the pay=work school of thought.  But &#8211; being devil&#8217;s advocate &#8211; what if you never get to the 10 year mark because no one would give you your break in those first 10 minutes?</p>
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		<title>By: Gavin</title>
		<link>http://www.untoldentertainment.com/blog/2009/06/11/the-ethics-of-hiring-students/comment-page-1/#comment-3314</link>
		<dc:creator>Gavin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Jun 2009 03:25:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.untoldentertainment.com/blog/?p=1334#comment-3314</guid>
		<description>Take the ethical route. Work = pay. 

If you expect to be paid 10 yrs into your career, why not expect to be paid 10 minutes in? 

At my place of employment we generally hire temporary staff through recruitment agencies. The agencies  take care of payroll and send us an invoice. Independent contractors are paid just like a vendor, and responsible (contractually) for being honest come tax time.

Paul, not every company is reluctant to hire students - I recently hired a student because she was just a flat-out great person and her portfolio was 10x better than most of the senior-level people that applied - It&#039;s just that in the current climate, companies are under pressure to do more with less, and taking someone under thier wing costs time.

Also, congratulations Ryan on your success! Making it to the two year mark while raising two muppet babies isn&#039;t an easy task. Cheers sir!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Take the ethical route. Work = pay. </p>
<p>If you expect to be paid 10 yrs into your career, why not expect to be paid 10 minutes in? </p>
<p>At my place of employment we generally hire temporary staff through recruitment agencies. The agencies  take care of payroll and send us an invoice. Independent contractors are paid just like a vendor, and responsible (contractually) for being honest come tax time.</p>
<p>Paul, not every company is reluctant to hire students &#8211; I recently hired a student because she was just a flat-out great person and her portfolio was 10x better than most of the senior-level people that applied &#8211; It&#8217;s just that in the current climate, companies are under pressure to do more with less, and taking someone under thier wing costs time.</p>
<p>Also, congratulations Ryan on your success! Making it to the two year mark while raising two muppet babies isn&#8217;t an easy task. Cheers sir!</p>
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		<title>By: Paul</title>
		<link>http://www.untoldentertainment.com/blog/2009/06/11/the-ethics-of-hiring-students/comment-page-1/#comment-3305</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Jun 2009 15:29:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.untoldentertainment.com/blog/?p=1334#comment-3305</guid>
		<description>As a student, I&#039;m sort of stuck. I had been freelancing and barely paying the bills, and recently got a job with an agency.

However, they (I dont hold it against them) were reluctant to immediately hold onto me as a full time employee. I&#039;m being paid &#039; by cheque&#039; and requested to do my own taxes.

Same as freelancing.

I don&#039;t understand why people are ever reluctant to hire a student. If they have something to offer - they have something to offer. Hire them, if they&#039;re inexperienced take them under your wing.

Having your own protege is always something fun.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As a student, I&#8217;m sort of stuck. I had been freelancing and barely paying the bills, and recently got a job with an agency.</p>
<p>However, they (I dont hold it against them) were reluctant to immediately hold onto me as a full time employee. I&#8217;m being paid &#8216; by cheque&#8217; and requested to do my own taxes.</p>
<p>Same as freelancing.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t understand why people are ever reluctant to hire a student. If they have something to offer &#8211; they have something to offer. Hire them, if they&#8217;re inexperienced take them under your wing.</p>
<p>Having your own protege is always something fun.</p>
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